JamHub - the silent rehearsal studio

It's here!!!

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It's here!!!

Postby Madmax25 » Mon Jan 25, 2010 6:23 am

WOOHOOO!!!! :o :shock: :D :lol: :)

I finally recieved my Jamhub GreenRoom this morning! Luckily, the band's weekly rehearsal is tonight and I can't wait to try it out!

I've been waiting for this moment for 6 months. It can probably only disappoint because of that, but I'm still really excited to Jamhub for the first time 8-)

I'll write a short review of my experiences with it once we've had the chance to mess around with it.

And if the recordings we get out of it are of a certain quality (sound AND performance wise :D ) I'll post that as well.
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Re: It's here!!!

Postby Steve-at-JamHub » Mon Jan 25, 2010 9:24 am

Wooo Hoooo! :o Have a ball! :lol:
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Re: It's here!!!

Postby Madmax25 » Tue Jan 26, 2010 6:23 am

Wow! :shock: That was fantastic!

By far the best sound we've ever had during a rehearsal.

Let me just set the scene: We have a shitty little rehearsal space that we use every monday. It has gear low priced gear that a lot of different bands use. That means a noisy PA system, a low quality drum set, a weak Behringer bass amp and to Crate transistor half stacks for guitars... But it's what we've been able to afford for the last 4 years :) Gradually we've been upgrading the different pieces of equipment, which means that I haul my own amp with me, the bass player his own amp and our own PA mixer. All of this has to be set up for each rehearsal before we can play and taken back down before we leave. And we only have 3 hours rehearsal time, which means we use a lot of that time setting up all our gear, only to be faced with constant volume wars with the drummer because we're in such a small room. As you can tell, not an ideal situation... :roll:

That's why I thought the JamHub would be perfect for our band:
1. We would have better sound quality at every rehearsal because we can hear what each of us is doing - even the singer
2. No more volume wars - we can have as much of each instrument as we please
3. We'd have an easy way of recording rehearsals in good quality - something that we've always had problems with. The best results have come from using a Zoom H4n handheld recorder in the middle of the small room, but it's still not ideal - too hard to distinguish individual members of the band
4. The same sound every time we play. We've always had a hard time hitting the right sound at every rehearsal. Sometimes the sound is fairly good, other times it's almost unbearable. And it's not (always) our performance that causes it. Maybe it's because we share rehearsal space with a lot of other people, so the gear is moved around a lot, setting are constantly changed etc., but even when we set up our own gear in the room, we have a hard time nailing the right sound in the room.
5. We would have the added bonus of being able to rehearse anywhere without bothering anyone. Something which is great for those times right before a gig when you want an extra rehearsal to be as tight as possible but you can't find the rehearsal space.
6. It would take as much time, if not less, to set up the JamHub because we wouldn't need to set up our amps every time - we could just go directly from our guitar and bass effect boards (which we were incidentally using before our amps anyway...)

Here is a "quick" run through of our setup:
The drummer was using an acoustic drumset. We used 3 generic vocal mics (cheaper Shure SM58 copies) to mic the drum kit. Two of these were used as sort of overhead mics using the recorderman method and one was used as a bass drum mic (see more on the recorderman method here: http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=IiFOD1EeKhQ ) These 3 mics were sent to a Yamaha EMX 512SC Powered Mixer were we turned down the monitor volume and turned the master volume up. We then used the L & R master out to send to the JamHub using an insert cable. This yeilded fairly good results, but the drums were the hardest to get enough volume out of.
Guitar -> Tonelab SE -> JamHub using Tonelab's headphone out, a 1/8 to 1/4 jack adapter and a stereo cable
Bass -> Boss ME-50B -> JamHub using ME's headphone out and a stereo cable
Lead Vocals -> Yamaha EMX 512C -> JamHub using the monitor mono out and jack to xlr cable
Other Vocals -> Mic -> JamHub

Let me just say that the JamHub really came through in so far every way I imagined. It took us a while to set everything up, and even though I've spent the last 6 months explaining the concept to my fellow band members, I still had to explain a lot of basics with regards to connector types, JamHub sections and so forth. But after about 40/45 minutes of setting everything up we were ready to jam. And it was such a fantastic experience. We used the first song (Times Like These by Foo Fighters) to get the levels right for each of us and by the time we played the next song (Sex On Fire by Kings Of Leon) I was in musical heaven! Never before have I been able to hear everything so clearly and at perfect volume levels (for me :D ). It was like hearing professionally mastered song, but being a part of it at the same time. It was actually a bit weird at first, because it was such a different experience from the louder than life rock band we usually are, but once you get used to it, you never want to hear it any other way. The quality of the sound coming from the JamHub is so good, I was even wondering if there isn't some kind of built in compressor, because the sound was so balanced and easy on the ears. Whatever it does to the sound, it does it just right. And the built in effects are of a surprisingly good and pleasant sounding quality. I wasn't expecting the built in effects to be of such good quality. And the Stage Control is genius. It really helps to give the performance depth - and to distinguish the different instruments and vocals from each other. I can't wait to start recording with this thing...

I do have some very minor issues with the JamHub. One being that I don't think the volume can get quite loud enough in the headphones. Even after having gained the instruments according to the manual and having maxed some of them out on my particular JamHub section, I still had the headphone volume on max through the whole rehearsal. Granted, we're used to playing at very loud volumes so I think it's a matter of getting used to the lower volumes. And I did find myself gradually turning down the volume a bit as we got further into the rehearsal. But I was a little disappointed that I had to max out the volume to begin with. But the ringing in my ears as I lay my head down to sleep makes me appreciate the fact that I wasn't able to turn it up more :oops:
The fact that there is no way to EQ vocals directly on the JamHub is an logical omission from a design point of view, but it did bother our singer. So he went through the mixer first, EQ'd his vocal signal and sent it through the monitor send to the JamHub. After doing this though, he was very pleased with the way it sounded. Jeez, singers... :roll:
Not so much the JamHub's fault, but the drummer was complaining that he was getting a bit too much bleed from the acoustic set, making it hard for him to hear the rest of us in his headphones, even though he was using the type that covers the ears. He's thinking of combining a pair of earphones with a pair of non electronic isolation headphones on top, just to keep out the bleed.

In short (too late): I love our JamHub! I rate it 9/10, and I haven't even begun to touch on the subjects of silent rehearsal and recording options. Oh, and of course I hope to use it as a live monitor mixer some day, but I'll get back to you once I try it out ;)
Madmax25
 
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Re: It's here!!!

Postby Steve-at-JamHub » Tue Jan 26, 2010 1:40 pm

Thanks for the detailed review Madmax25. We love hearing from customers, especially when they are doing their first few jams. Yes it will get better as you get into it more and more.

Two things I'd like to chat more about are 1, headphone output and 2, EQ on microphones.

First the headphone output level should be "throw them off your head" loud. They are capable of producing a 120dB sound pressure level if the gain staging is right. I find that with most new users they don't "max" the gain in the mix section of their section, and with "old" users the same problem can arrise.

What I do is start with my knob, let's say I'm in section 1, set at about the 3:00 position. This gives me room to go up and puts my signal nice and loud in my headphone amps. I then adjust the band accordingly. Usually the rest of the guys are at 12:00 to 2:00 position depending on their gain structure and where I need them in the song. I've NEVER had the headphone output level past 3:00 in this scenario and at 3:00 it was "ear ringing" loud.

This brings up an important point. Often when we hear distortion (whether created by the gear or our ears from being pummeled by sound) we interpret that as "louder". When I was at Bose, in the automotive division, they gave me a demo and showed me this first hand. What they did is play the same piece of music for me inside a car, then asked me which was louder. Several times in a row I clearly heard one piece of music was louder than the other, no matter what the style of music (rock, jazz, classical, etc.). To me it was "loud and clear" which playback was louder in each pairing.

Then the revealed to me that in all cases, the music was played at the EXACT same level, but in one of the versions they added a bit of distortion, that is they made the music sound "worse". My ears told me, distorted = louder ... that's how I perceived it every single time, when in fact, they volume was identical. It was a fascinating study and it helped me a lot in my psychoacoustics training at Bose ... especially in dealing with competitive products that seemed to get louder, but in fact, they were not as loud and distorted BUT perception was on their side.

My point here is that 1, you can probably get the headphones louder and two, if your ears are ringing, maybe it was already loud but you didn't feel it was loud because it was so clear. Just a guess, but I thought it was worth sharing the story.

Okay, on to item two, the EQ. My answer here won't feel satisfactory but I always feel that if you have to EQ a microphone, you don't have a good microphone. Vocal music is WAY more popular than instrumental music. Get a good mic for the vocals. There are a TON of them out there starting at about $150 and they last for years and years. That's my OPINION and as you know, everyone has opinions and they are all correct in some way and wrong in some way. I don't know your band's situation so it's not even fair to say "go buy a good vocal mic" but that's how I feel. I use the TC Electronic vocal processors to add some pitch correction ... I mean ... ummm ... ambiance and compression to my voice and they have some nice EQ features in those boxes, though I don't use them. I'm VERY happy with my Audix OM5 for JamHub and live singing.

I hope that helps and thanks a TON for the detailed writeup. I hope it helps other musicians to decide if a JamHub is right for their band.

Steve :ugeek:
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Re: It's here!!!

Postby Madmax25 » Wed Jan 27, 2010 4:03 am

Hi Steve

Thank you for your reply.

1. When you mention the knob not going past 3:00, you're talking about the headphone knob, NOT the gain knob, right?

It might be that we didn't set the gain stages correctly, but the thing is that the gain light started to turn yellow, and I thought that was where you needed to back off the gain, so it stayed green... Am I missing something? Even when trying to gain the acoustic drum signal, the signal would stay green most of the times, but sometimes flash red quickly on certain drum hits. I don't remember which of course, but it might mean that we turned up the bass drum mic a bit too much on the mixer, I don't know... With my Tonelab SE's output volume on full, I had the JamHub gain stage at about 10:00 as it would otherwise start to flash yellow. Does this sound right? (I know it depends on the channel volume of each patch, but still...)

Interesting info on the volume level vs. distortion of the sound 8-)

2. The lead singer's vocal mic is a Shure PGX24E/SM58 wireless mic so I don't believe that's the problem. I just think he's used to being able to EQ the mic a bit to get the sound that he wants.
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Re: It's here!!!

Postby Steve-at-JamHub » Wed Jan 27, 2010 8:52 am

Madmax25 wrote:Hi Steve

Thank you for your reply.

1. When you mention the knob not going past 3:00, you're talking about the headphone knob, NOT the gain knob, right?

Correct. I set the "SoleMix" knobs by starting with me at 3:00 (the 1~6 and R knobs)
It might be that we didn't set the gain stages correctly, but the thing is that the gain light started to turn yellow, and I thought that was where you needed to back off the gain, so it stayed green... Am I missing something? Even when trying to gain the acoustic drum signal, the signal would stay green most of the times, but sometimes flash red quickly on certain drum hits. I don't remember which of course, but it might mean that we turned up the bass drum mic a bit too much on the mixer, I don't know... With my Tonelab SE's output volume on full, I had the JamHub gain stage at about 10:00 as it would otherwise start to flash yellow. Does this sound right? (I know it depends on the channel volume of each patch, but still...)


A little yellow or red is okay, but it sounds like your trim settings are perfect.

Interesting info on the volume level vs. distortion of the sound 8-)

Glad you liked it. I enjoy sharing this kind of stuff but you never know if the person on the other end wants to hear it. :ugeek:

2. The lead singer's vocal mic is a Shure PGX24E/SM58 wireless mic so I don't believe that's the problem. I just think he's used to being able to EQ the mic a bit to get the sound that he wants.


The SM58 is a very good mic but it often needs EQ. It's not a clear mic, but it is rugged and cheap. To my ears it gets very "crowded" in the midrange and I can understand why you guys would want to EQ it. I suggest the Audix OM5; it's plug and play.

Chuck-at-JamHub is a "mic man" and he can recommend a BUNCH of alternatives that will require no EQ at all, at a bunch of different price points.

Hope that helps,
Steve
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Re: It's here!!!

Postby Madmax25 » Wed Jan 27, 2010 9:56 am

Thank you for mentioning the mic options.

In the end, I think he will use an external effects unit for EQ'ing, probably something like the TC Helicon VoiceTone Create XT. The wireless mic was a pretty big investment in the first place, so I don't see that getting replaced anytime soon...
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Re: It's here!!!

Postby Steve-at-JamHub » Wed Jan 27, 2010 7:47 pm

Sounds like a good option.

Have fun!
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Re: It's here!!!

Postby Man room jams » Sat Feb 20, 2010 12:00 pm

I had the same problem with headphone bleed and headphones level until bought a few more sets of Extreme isolation.

Using matching isolation headphones will to make your Jam Hub experience better from the start. The drummer will not need ear buds and gun muffs.

Your drummer will automatically block 30% of his acoustic drum kit noise and he will be able to hear the rest of the guys with no problem.
You will hear an equal monitor reference of sound since you all have matching headphones. the band will hear 30% less of the acoustic drums.

If you read the specs of Extremes they have very efficient drivers in the headphones. 32 ohm 107 - 114db sensitivity depending on the model.

The phone will handle 500 mW of power but they only need about 12 to 15 mW of power at medium volume since the isolation is so good.
There are no hyped frequencies and you all will hear excactly what is being played and no more.

You will not have ringing in your ears unless you are already deaf by turning up the volume all the time.
The headphones are comfortable to wear for hours and they won't break to bank.

I never tried using any other headphones with my acoustic drums since I owned a set of extremes because I knew that they had to do a better job. Using isolation headphones with acoustic drums is a no brainer.
Hope this helps you guys.
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Re: It's here!!!

Postby Madmax25 » Thu Mar 18, 2010 8:51 am

Update:

I think I promised you guys a sound taste for the setup described above, so here goes:

http://soundcloud.com/madmax25/crazy

This was actually one of our very first recordings on the Jamhub. We've recorded several times since, this was just one of the recordings with the least mistakes... :lol:

Sorry that it's not original material. I'm not a big fan of uploading original material until I'm absolutely possitive that the legal aspects of it are in order. Would hate it if somebody else suddenly had a hit with one our songs ;)
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